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the word that's in my mind is not quite accurate. Elegant. It's not quite the word, but-- they were dignified. They were men who had perception and vision.

And that was my original view of the Regents as personified by these men. And, of course, there were other members of the board. People like Eddie [Edward] Wahrburg. I remember his having a tremendous sense of humor. There was one woman on the board at that time. I guess my being the first black-- and they'd had two or three women before on the Board, one at a time.

I really can't quite pick the word that describes accurately my first impression of the Regents, but it was generally positive. It wasn't until a little later that another person, who came on the Board after me-- I think immediately after me-- another person whom I had a great deal of respect for. He was formerly the head of a section of Syracuse University, Steve [Stephen] Bailey. Steve Bailey was a very perceptive man. And he later went up to Harvard in the Graduate School of Education there. But Max Rubin, Steve Bailey and I were kind of a triumvirate, you know. We would talk over agenda items together and would have sort of a common front. We didn't always agree, but we always respected each other. Steve died a few years ago. Max and I meet and have lunch. I had a letter from him yesterday.

Then something happened. We got involved in matters of desegregation of the schools, and I guess the main problem-- it was sort of a turning point on the Board of Regents. There was an Oceanhill-Brownsville problem in New York City, where the local