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it, but it's a rather deep- seated fear.

Now I did see some schools in Richmond, and interestingly enough these were K-6 schools. I saw two-- one or two-- in which there was an excellent example of white and black children learning together, rehearsing, playing together. This is a Kerry School, a top-level school.

Did you call them K-6?

K-6. Kindergarten through sixth grade. And I understood from the principal, who is a black man, that they have a long waiting list of white and black parents who are seeking to get their children in that school. So they have to have a sort of a lottery. And what I couldn't understand was, well, why was this an exception? Why couldn't they do this in the other schools? There wasn't any answer.

Have you done this kind of consulting and observing work in other areas in the South, large areas in the schools?

No. In Buffalo, the Buffalo schools. The “magnet” schools. Some “magnet” schools in Newburgh. And I believe that all schools could be “magnet” schools. You have some children in special schools. What about the majority of the children who are not doing that? Do you consider them expendable?

As you can see, I'm very unrealistic on these matters.