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Well, you know it was Malcolm who converted Cassius Clay--

Of course.

--to becoming a Muslim. it was Malcolm who, I think, played the key role in Muhammad Ali becoming Muhammad Ali rather than Cassius Clay. It was interesting to me that apparently Malcolm did such an effective job in conversion that after he, Malcolm, was excommunicated, Muhammad Ali remained loyal to Elijah Muhammad. Incidentally, an athlete that I knew of and I guess everybody knew then, that shows you that I don't have any inside knowledge on Malcolm's relationship with black athletes--

You had no knowledge how he thought he about Jackie Robinson, for example?

No, except that I did know that Jackie was certainly more conservative than Malcolm. Jackie is a Republican.

Of course, he became a businessman. He became Vice President of Chock Full of Nuts.

That's right.

How do you feel about these black athletes as role models?

I feel the same way that Arthur Ashe feels. I have said to