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Very few. But Jackie would even question--well, I think maybe in discussions, I'm not positive of this. I heard him question his decision making role in Chock Full of Nuts. I think he resigned from that.

He resigned. I do not recall the circumstances.

But he was not a person with delusions, or illusions. He was a pretty clear-thinking person. There are very few Jackie Robinson's even in his time, and he was an outstanding athlete there were, as the other black athletes came in they became more and more like other athletes. Jackie was beyond a top level athlete. I mean, he somehow was caught up in the larger struggle and wasn't able to divorce his celebrity status; and sometimes even took a lot of risk in his refusal to just be idolized in isolation. What is there about this interview that's bothering me? Can you tell me?

[tape stops and starts]

I'm tired. I'm tired of this round, and round, and round. Basic racists. I'm tired of seeing the differences but also you've got to be able to escape seeing the similarities. There still are tremendous “amounts of progress” have been made since Jackie's period, since the civil rights movement, starting with the Brown decision, or before the Brown decision, but certainly being dramatized by Brown. In the 1960s, the Civil Rights Act in 1964, the Voting Rights Act in 1965. Yes, progress has been made, and one has