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--in fact, lecturing the President, and the President's reaction?

Yes, I did. I was one of the few among my friends who believed that this would not be a permanent damage to Mr. Reagan. I think I might have told you that I think he was going to get over that. I think that there's evidence that he did.

Would you say that your statement that he never lets himself gets upstaged would apply even to that confrontation?

Oh, I don't think there's any question about that.

He was rather challenged, wasn't he, but--

He was challenged but not upstaged, and my judgment is that the person who came off second best was Wiesel, and I think there's some justification because he was pleading, supplicating. He was challenging but supplicating. I don't know that you can do both with the President of the United States.

Do you suppose he persuaded anybody other than those already persuaded?

Oh, I don't think he persuaded a single soul other than those already persuaded. By the way, I was at a Commencement where he received an honorary degree and I received one. I think it was at the State University in Binghamton. Yes, Wiesel. How do you