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He also had hope of some moral re-awakening among the American people.

Well, that was really Martin who put more weight on the conscience, moral awakening. Martin really believed that people had a moral core which, if properly tapped, could make the difference, positively.

I want to ask you a follow up question on your relationship with the Joint Center for Political Studies in Washington. In an earlier interview you said that it proved a certain value, at least as a repository for assembling information and analysis. Were you a co-founder of that?

Yes.

Did you then leave it?

Well, I was head of the Metropolitan Applied Research Center and we developed it out of the Metropolitan Applied Research Center but I felt that it should operate on its own. I stayed on as a member of the Board of Governors of the Joint Center up until last year. I left because I didn't see any particular function that I could perform. It was functioning on its own. It had the routine.

Now, do I understand correctly that the Joint Center did some polling in certain black communities, possibly including Harlem but