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discrimination problem?

Yes. Oddly enough, I was not aware of the discrimination or color problem in the first three or four grades, when I used to have to fight Brennan. And I just remember Brennan because he stands out. Maybe there were others, you know, too. But he stands out because we liked each other, but we still had to fight.

One of my closest friends was a person by the name of Harry Moore, and I would like to findout where he is, if he's still alive. He lived on Eighth Avenue. He too was Irish. And sometimes I'd go to his house for lunch, you know. His mother and father, I don't remember his father, but his mother was very kind. I just don't remember color being a factor in my relationship with my classmates, up through the fifth grade.

The first time I became aware of color was when I saw my first colored teacher, who was a student teacher, Hubert Delaney. He was apparently at City College, and had come down to do his practice teaching at P.S. 5, and I remember one of my classmates telling me that there was a colored teacher, and I went to the door to look at him. I was so proud. You know, I was -- I remember the joy, the pride, the thrill I had, and I think I went home and told my mother that I saw a colored teacher. And I think that he came and substituted in our class some time. If I remember correctly, I was just impressed, awed, you know -- first, he's a tall person, and - --

Then, soon after the fifth or sixth grade, the neighborhood changed, and the proportion of whites decreased rapidly. There was the Hebrew Orphan Asylum on the hill, near City College, and those youngsters would come down to our school, in their khaki uniform,. I