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emphasize, I guess, or specialize in, until he told you? Did I hear you, did I understand correctly?

No, I mean, he told me by my listening, you know. He didn't come out and say to me, “You, now, must major in psychology.”

He didn't lead you --

-- no, I told him. By my junior year, I went to him and I said, “Look, this is the field I want to major in..” And he said, “Are you sure?” I said, “Sure.” He said, “Well, it's rigorous. It's going to require hard work, and you're going to have to be competent in German --”

He told me, and he gave me the tools. It became almost a tutorship relationship that went on. He was really preparing me for a PhD. I took my master's with him, and Dr. (Max) Meenes, who's white. And immediately after I took my master's with them, they kept me on to teach, before I came up to Columbia for the PhD.

But it was clear that they made their decision, that I was going to be a PhD in psychology, and was going to play -- you know, even as an undergraduate, they were --

Another example of the importance of someone having faith in you, or confidence in you, and insisting that you meet the standards to justify it.

As you progressed toward your major and the advanced postgraduate degrees, which areas of psychology excited you the most?

The thing that excited me most was the neurophysiological. And