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college, I'd say, “Oh, what the hell, this is an irritating, brash, pushy kind of kid.

Were you that way also in high school?

No. Not at all. In high school, I was --as I told you, there were only ten blacks in my graduating class in George Washington High School. In high school, I was pretty -- I was aware of the fact that I could not --

I really don't know how to say this. It was not my high school, you know, it was somebody else's, and I had to get the best grades I could. But I didn't really feel a part of George Washington High School, except maybe in -- well, the economics course I told you about. I felt very much a part of that. I felt a part of art, because I had an art teacher who thought that I had talent, and she too was a very attractive woman. But I was more passive in high school, no question about it. I mean, I didn't start acting out assertiveness until I got to Howard. And I wasn't aware that race was a factor. I was more aware of being stimulated, you know, and being in a new environment, and an environment of which I really felt a part. I mean, I felt comfortable. I felt very much at ease. I had no orientation problems. I liked the students, those with whom I related. I was interested in the professors. I had never seen black professors before. I was impressed with the campus. I probably was bug-eyed -- and involved. I took an active role in student affairs, again, not knowing what the hell it was about, you know, but I just, -- I made friends easily, and some of my closest friends are still