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It includes other kinds of --

-- what I was suggesting years ago was a first step. But the larger thing -- and I guess here, is where Skinner -- by the way, he has mellowed quite a bit. I mean, he gave his presentation on behavior modification in democracy the day before I gave mine, and his was much more mellow than mine. And he is still focussing on the social, environmental control of human immorality. And I wish that he were right, in terms of our having the time. I zero in on organismic, biochemical, psychopharmacological intervention, because I don't think we have the time to run the margin of error risk of the Skinnerian approach.

Incidentally, did you get much response from biochemists as from psychologists?

You know, that's interesting -- the resposes from them were much more positive.

Because it offers them opportunity?

Yes. And the Pasteur Institute seemed much more responsive, I was told by my friend Schwartz, who was is dean of graduate studies at the Mt. Sinai Medical School. He was in Paris at the time that my ideas were publicized there, and he said that -- and he was at the Pasteur Institute -- he said that they were very positive about it.

The people who were most negative, almost profanely negative,