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And it was just ghastly. Ghastly. For me.

When you use the term “good people,” are you putting the adjective “good” in quotes?

Yes. Of course. I mean all those people who should have been standing by him, and just left.

And this included both blacks and whites?

It included every single person. Every single person.

Was J. Raymond Jones involved in that too at all?

J. Raymond Jones had not deserted, in that sense. When I say people deserted, I mean the people who were around him who were working very closely with him, like Cohen-- what was his name? Henry Cohen, who was working very closely with him, day to day. I can't even remember some of those people, to tell you the truth. I really have blacked it out. I really have blacked it out. My husband remembers everything in detail.

The board, for example. People on the HARYOU board deserted. And there wasn't one ounce of support, in the end. There really wasn't.

Was this out of fear of Powell's power? Or --?

Well, I think everyone recognized that Powell had to win this battle. That he was going to win this battle. And everyone knew, as political as they were, that they had to stay on his side, or they