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a black dress comes in and sits down in the black. Her name is Mary Ann Tighe. She is the deputy director of programming for NEA. Later left, and became head of the Cable Arts network. I didn't know who she was. She's sitting there. I'm pouring out my heart, you know, doing my shtick. I've done it a million times, you know -- “At the workplace” and “At the arts it would be this. Programs, these people committed. In this, these people committed. This exhibition -- this is committed.” It finishes and you could hear a -- nobody makes a move.

David says, “Now anybody interested for their divisions.” Nobody makes a move. Finally one guy -- a black guy, I forget his name, from the Special Arts Project. Very nice guy. He says, “We can commit for 7500 bucks. We can pick up the festival, and maybe some part of programming in the community.” Nobody says anything else. One jerk says, “I see you have Joe Papp here” -- because Papp had endorsed the project. “What is he going to do? Is he going to do a song and dance?” At that time Papp was doing his soft-shoe, that song and dance, at the Ballroom. So I said, “No. Papp has committed us to bring in a company from the Shakespeare theater to perform, ‘For Colored Girls’.” She shuts up. Davis says, “Okay, we'll be back in touch with you.” They file out. Marian Dockery is with me, and David. Jack says, “I'll be back. I'm going out.”

David says, “Look. All is not yet lost.” He says to Marian, “Marian -- you got 35,000 in special projects? Give it to him. Now I want you to sit down with Moe, and I want you to figure out again how we can get from different departments. There's chairman's money, there's,” he says, “Biddle will get you 25,000 in chairman's money. No matter what you get, let's get what we can. This is too good -- we've got to go with this. We've got to get what we can. If we can't get it at the beginning, we'll get it later on. Moe, you've got to go to foundations.” He says, “Have you thought of going to the Department of Health and Education?” I said, “Now, I should go to HEW? We start in two and a half months!” He says, “Don't give up. Don't worry. We've got to do something. Just keep pushing on this thing.” I really feel like a rag. I feel that as far as NEA, we're dead. We'll get 35,0000, 25,000 -- we can't operate the theater program without that. But in the back of my mind I'm thinking, “We're doing programming in theater like the oral history workshops. That's humanities.” [Telephone rings. Tape stops and starts.]

David H. Searles, that's David's full name.

I thought we were dead. I'm looking at my notes. “You can go to agencies, HEW.” Then I go out in to the hall, in the center, you know