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where the offices are. Golodner says, “I'm going in to see Biddle. I have to see him about something. Just wait here -- don't leave.” Marian says, “Look, I think I have to go to lunch now. But Moe don't be so unhappy. Don't be so unhappy -- there are worse things.” And who walks out but that woman in the black dress. She sees me and she says, “How did you do?” I said, “I don't know. Because someone had said that was Mary Ann Tighe. I said, “Your people killed me today.” She said, “What happened?” I said, “They just killed me. Nobody is buying anything.” She says to me, “Look Moe, I read your proposal. You have something to offer us that we need desperately. Don't give up. We've got to find a way of helping you.” Marian is about to go in to the elevator. I run, “Marian! Come out!” Marian says, “Great. We're not giving up.” So I went home, you know, on that thing.

We didn't get a lot of money the first year, but as the program moved they began to find more money for us. So I think the first year we may have gotten like 150,000 dollars. We got another 150,000 the second year. Because as the thing moved, a little later Biddle's office called me and said, “We have a meeting of the national council” -- that means the top people on NEA. You know, all the people on the outside. That's a body of about fifteen, twenty people -- you know, the top people. He says, “I want to invite you to come. We don't normally have this.” Someone from his staff called. “We want you to come to this council meeting and report on Bread and Roses. We'll give you fifteen minutes on the agenda to make your report.” At that time we were all ready videotaping. I said, “I'll use seven minutes with a video tape.”

We had Jane Fonda on the video tape. When I put it on, the sound was dead. I kept talking and talking and talking. I'm rushing ahead, but I remember when I finished people got up and were talking about, “Gee, this is wonderful.” Mary Anne Tighe got up and said, “Look, I want to say something. At the very beginning, when I saw the proposal I thought that this was a lot of water. They were talking big. The more I got to know about them, the more I realized that this is a magnificent proposal. We are proud to be part of it.” We were in to Bread and Roses at the time, because by this time Duffy was inviting me to lunch with the Deputy Chairman Patricia MacFate -- who's now the head of the Swedish Foundation -- asking me, “Won't you tell us how you do these things? How do you do these things?”

But let me come back again, because some of the things are important and interesting. I had decided that I want to have a poster for Bread and Roses -- theme poster. I wrote in the project a theme poster. The