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Kock -- when I met with him in Washington said, “You ought to speak to Ray Moore.” Then it's the other guy who was then in the Labor Department. It was the -- what's his name? He left, he worked with a union, came out of Bayard Rustin's operation. Black guy.

Ernie Green.

Ernie Green. So Ernie Green okayed it, and we began to work with Ray Moore in terms of a 50,000 dollar grant.

Also we were very fortunate at that time that Ray Marshall was the secretary of labor. Ray Marshall is interested in art. I would send stuff to Ray Marshall, and that began a relationship that was very very helpful to us. Ray Marshall issued statements to us and releases, so that when we wanted to do the musical “Take Care” in Washington, we did it at the Labor Department auditorium. I'll come to that later. So that's the way things went.

Finally, a couple of other things. The video I've talked to you about, about Mark Levin's role. While we were preparing to begin -- and it looked like we were going to go ahead with it -- I forget who it was suggested I contact the dean at the City University, Harold Proshansky. I had a meeting with Proshansky, and he had three deans with him. Of course I'd sent him a memo about Bread and Roses, what we were planning to do, and he was very very very very interested. “What we could do for you.” He saw us as a potentially big operation with a lot of money, and he wanted some of it. Because if a university comes in they cream off a lot of stuff. He said, “You have to do an evaluation? We have the people to do the evaluation for you. We have the facilities at City University as an auditorium -- you can do the performances here. You can use our staff as humanists.” He was all out for it. Then I went to Len Oliver and Len Oliver said, “Stay away from him. He's going to just skim off a lot of the money. Do it yourself.”

I remember meeting also with people from the Board of Education -- Georgie Green, Florence Jackson -- who, strangely enough, I got to through Sue Glass, who was Al Shanker's p.r. person, who was a very close friend of Myrna Davis -- they went to school together. So that was helpful to me.

At any rate, we were ready to go. When we went, we went with everything. So that in January we moved, on all fronts. I think that that's the period that I'm going to start with again. The Bread and Roses in operation.