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xeroxed copy. You look it over, and I want you to buy a thousand copies, 500 copies, at $2.” Within a couple of weeks I had orders for 10,000 copies. I was amazed at myself for that. I began to think that maybe there was a way of doing a lot of things that way. So that started the relationship with the United Church, since they were publishing and had a publishing arm. Esther Cohen was their editor. That began the relationship between myself and the United Church, and Pilgrim Press and with Esther Cohen. It continues to this day and went in to other books. Later they did Images of Labor, etcetera. Those are some of the things.

Also, I don't know if I've told you, I wanted to tell you about the role of Ossie Davis in this thing. I was in touch with Ossie at virtually every stage of Bread and Roses as it was moving, prior to it beginning -- just the planning, what we wanted to do. I would touch base with him, and whenever I had a problem that I thought he would be helpful to us I would ask him to help. For example. Theodore Bikel was a member of the council of the National Endowment for the Arts, the labor person on the council. He was at that time the president of Actor's Equity. I did not know him, and I said to Ossie, “Do you know him?” He says, “Of course I know him.” I said, “Gee it would be great if we could meet with him.” “Okay.” The next thing I knew we were having lunch with Theodore Bikel. Then I find out that Billy Taylor is on the council, and is very well respected on the council. Ossie says, “Okay.” and one day marches in to my office with Billy Taylor. Sits down and hears me do my thing on Bread and Roses, and he offers to make calls and to support us. That's the kind of thing that Ossie did.

At the beginning -- I don't know if I told you about WNYC? Mary Perot Nichols?

I'm not sure -- go ahead.

Well, just about when we were about to begin in January.

You did tell me.

We were on their, you know, we had a week long series of Bread and Roses programs on the station. Okay. WNYC also ran the Paul Davies poster on the cover of their portfolio in January, 1978.

Then through the p.r. person for WNYC, Elaine Narrimore, told me she -- we were talking about Bread and Roses and she said, “Do you know somebody? There's a friend of mine who works at the Labor Department who would be really interested in what you're doing. His name is George Kock.” I called him and he talked to me -- George