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Forman to come over with me and to look at the film strip.” I got excited again, “Maybe he'll get that thing in.” He called me and said, “Forman left for England” that morning. That was the end of that. Okay, so that was that.

The last thing that's happened on that took place just a few weeks ago, when I was up in Albany and Ralph Fasanella mentioned to me, I asked him about his work in New Bedford and he told me that there was a big project under way under the direction of Ron Carver, of UE. They were doing all kind of things there. I said, “You must make sure they do something that has a permanent value. The major thing that could have permanent value would be to do programs that get built in to the school curriculum, so that it happens all the time. He said, “Look, would you talk to him?” I said, “Of course.” He said, “I'll call.” Then Ron Carver called me and we had a long, long meeting on the phone about what they were doing. They're doing a lot of things that are very very exciting, and are based upon the experiences in Lawrence. The whole experience of bringing Ralph back there is a repeat, a reprise of Lawrence.


Is he doing paintings about New Bedford, also?


He's doing drawings that will end up as paintings of New Bedford. He's living there in a motel this time, not in a Y[MCA]. He spends three days a week there. They got a grant for him. In the description given to me of what they were planning and what they were doing, is very imaginative and sounds very good. Really good. [Tape stops and starts.]

Ran off a couple of things, all fairly brief. One is the production of a one hour t.v. documentary that ended up on channel thirteen and was shown in Canada and other t.v. stations around the country. That was based upon the work of Mark Levin of following Bread and Roses projects, programs, and videotaping them. I approached Jerry Toobin. T-O-O-B-I-N, now dead, who was an important person in charge of programming at channel thirteen here in New York. I had gotten to know him through Carey McWilliams. He was very fond of our union, knew about it, knew about me and about Bread and Roses. He asked to see some of the footage, and Mark and I came by and left it with him. He called up and said, “Come by.” He was interested. But before I got to him, I remember meeting with other people at thirteen. One was George Page, and the other was Walter Goodman, who was at that time the number two person in new programming -- you know, looking for programs.

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