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The same Walter Goodman who attacked everybody on the left in the New York Times?

Same Walter Goodman. When we met the first thing he said is, “Are you related to the Foners?” I said, “Yes!” He says, “So what do you do?” I told him, he says, “You mean you've been getting all this money from the government? You?” I said, “Yes, why?” He says -- well anyway, it was quite interesting.

What is this guy, like some kind of professional anti-communist or something?

Yes, he's one of those characters. He's bright.

Then we met with Mark and I and Jerry Toobin and began to talk about what was going to happen on it. But we had to be very cautious. He was buying everything cheap. This became a war of wills. Jerry said, “I'd like to do a one hour documentary on Bread and Roses, and I'd like --.” I said, “Well, Mark has to do it.” He said, “Well, we have certain legal problems. We cannot have PBS -- Public Broadcasting -- you cannot put on a program that you produce yourself. It's like self- aggrandizement. So it has to be done by an independent producer. Mark is the producer of the show, I am not.” You can work with him but you cannot be the producer of the show. So I said, “That's okay, fine. Mark will do it, you'll work with him on it.”

Then we got in to the question of costs. He said, “Well, we'll pick up. You know, you're doing what you're doing so keep doing it.” He says, “Well to finalize the thing, you know, we're going to have to, it's going to cost money to finish it off, to edit it. We want to use a segment of Take Care, we have to film it. We have to pay the union rates and all that stuff.” He said, “Don't worry, don't worry.” It ended up with him saying, “We'll give you 25,000 dollars.” So I said, “Fine.” I was negotiating for Mark now, because I couldn't get anything on it. There developed a big hassle on this 25,000 dollars. I wanted it in writing. He said, “I can't give it to you in writing.” Finally he gave it to me, his own thing. So when I got it and showed it to a lawyer he said, [laughs] “It doesn't mean anything. But, he agreed to it.” [laughs] Anyway, we went through all this kind of thing. Finally, it was finished and we had a one hour documentary.

It was on PBS.

It was on PBS.

Did it get much of a response?