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wasn't published at that time, but we had the cover, [laughs] held up the cover. So it was a very good promo.

When I got in to Washington -- Roger told me this story, it came out. There was tremendous opposition about bringing a labor exhibition in to the museums. The first time an exhibition organized by a labor union was brought inside the Smithsonian. Roger told me about it, and the story appeared in the Washington Post.

Where did the opposition come from?

Trustees of the Smithsonian. “Not good art,” you know, and Roger stood up. He really had guts to do this. I really was very appreciative. I remember when Tom Donahue got up to speak he said, “The labor movement has never been inside any Smithsonian museum. We've been outside, on Labor Day, hands on programs -- the first time. We are grateful to Moe Foner and Bread and Roses for bringing the labor movement inside. We're going to stay inside.” Anyway, it was nice to hear that. The AFL-CIO obviously had pictures inside. We had a lot of pictures and stuff in the AFL-CIO News all the time on Bread and Roses. I would constantly feed them with stuff.

The other thing that happened was that -- Kenny Young is an art buff. He's the assistant to Lane Kirkland. At one point Kenny Young, I had contacted Kenny Young through Jack and I had told him what we got. He said, “Terrific, I want to se it.” I came down with slides and I showed him the slides. He said, “You've answered a big problem on my mind. This is the answer. The 100th Anniversary Convention, we were looking for something to give the delegates. Now we can give them this book.” I began to say, “My God! 5,000 copies of the book will be given to every international union, every delegate at the AFL- CIO convention. Incredible, incredible. Another run, etcetera.” He assigned it to somebody who then started pouring over everything. They wanted to see the quotations, and why Woody Guthrie?

Still more animosity toward Woody Guthrie?

I'm telling you, they found everything. It ended up that they bought 100 copies to be given to the members of the executive council.

Unbelievable. The anti-communism runs so deep.

Anyway, that's the story on that part of it.

Now, the other phases of Images are very very exciting, because in booking it I would always make sure to spend time on the phone with