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mean someone like Springsteen, who is a giant hero, does not have to write songs specifically about P9. If he goes to a rally of P9ers and sings a song he's all ready written, he evokes that kind of response. It's interesting because Bruce Springsteen is a zillion times bigger than Pete Seeger ever was, and it's quite an interesting change in the nature of the relationship.

Of the art, the art itself. But there aren't many Springsteens around. There aren't many Seegers either. The difference is like between television and live theater, in terms of the audience. Because Springsteen gets a record out and it booms up, but Springsteen's a very very rare bird. How many Springsteens are there usually doing that kind of material? Is there anybody else who does that material, who's that popular?

Well not that popular, but someone like John Cougar-Mellencamp, and there are other singers who are sympathetic.

Who reach large audiences?

Who reach pop, mainstream audiences. Actually the relationship is much more, there are many more singers of this kind of relate to the black struggles.

But look, isn't “We Are the World,” would you say that “We Are The World” also comes out of the popular front period? Now remember it's the same kind of thing. Here it is. What you're doing here is you're getting together -- it's Belafonte using his influence, and his knowledge, and his concern, because he's able to put together all of these people around the thing. I always felt that they didn't, that they had the wrong cause. Because, you know, they had a problem because they're dealing in the media thing. Yet because they were involving -- you see if you're dealing with someone like Stevie Wonder, who is a genius. He really is a genius. You know I never really realized it so much until recently I've caught him a couple of times on television, doing things. It's quite clear that he is a genius. First of all an enormous ability, but also an ability to translate in to things that are very popular, and without sacrificing his stuff. But you could at the same time do that for South Africa.

It's been done.

Yes, but not the same. Good! Very good -- Sun City.

Sun City. With much better politics.