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protecting themselves and their jobs. The only thing they were afraid of was Doris. And if Doris wasn't coming out, to heck with it.”

But anyway, let me come back to this thing. Where were we?

You were just saying -- I interrupted and asked why your relationship with White was bad and Eddy Kay.

Alright. So I called Eddy Kay and I said, “Eddy, I don't know what it's about, but I was told that it would be advisable that you meet with David White.” He says, “Me meet with David White?”

When was this?

October of 1984.

Two or three months after the strike.

Yes. I said, “I don't know, but I was told that it would be important from someone I respect. He wouldn't tell me this.” He says, “Alright.” Every time I would talk to Eddy I said, “Did you speak to David White?” He says, “No, I haven't yet done it, but I'll do it.” In November he had a meeting with David White. He called me up and he said, “Moe, I got to talk to you.” He says, “Boy oh boy, we got it now.” We had filed the objections to the election! There had been a number of events of harassing our people, that we filed with the NLRB, and that kind of thing.

But it was relatively weak?

Oh yes. You know, it was objections to the election. It was a good case, but it didn't have the guts to it to prove it. Everything was sort of self serving. This guy did that, and this guy did this, and he didn't let him come here -- okay. He says, “David White has filed an affidavit with the Labor Department. I have a copy. David White went down to the Labor Department without us and said he wanted to file an affidavit. They said, ‘You sure you want to do this?’ He said, ‘Yes, I'm sure I want to do it.’ Then when he finished it he waited for them to transcribe it, and Moe Biller's son, who is on the staff, said to him, 'Do you know that if you sign this and it's not true you can go to jail?' He says, ‘I know that. I want to sign it.’” And he signed it. He took out that affidavit, he kept a copy, and he showed it to Eddy Kay, and Eddy Kay showed it to me. I said, “This is it, but we got to do something. We got to get David White to go public, and before he goes public we've got to get David White on tape. I want that statement on tape. I want him to read that into a tape recorder.” So they worked on it, and he agreed. Dennis Rivera arranged to pick up a tape recorder