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And it was from this connection with Levison that goes back.

So all these things worked, so you could get a situation where we're fighting in Albany for a thing, and Rockefeller's people were saying, “You know, we got a call from Martin Luther King today.”

I'd say, “I know.”

Then the same thing with Randolph and Bayard. I got to know Bayard, and Bayard worked full-time with us, with Norman Hill and Rochelle Horowitz and Tom Kahn.

Let's hold those until later.

Okay. Where are we now?

Wherever we are, we are. If you want to get going, we'll get going? We didn't get much progress chronologically. We got from 1933 to 1938, and we got off on this question of good and evil, so to speak. It was a very Nietzchean evening.

Yes. What do you need?

I guess what I wanted to ask was just more about that period.

Which period?

We're talking now, mid- to late-Thirties. What were you doing? I know it's going from the sublime to the mundane.

Okay. I'm at City College. Okay. I have some notes that are important of that period. My brothers are now, Phil particularly is very closely involved with labor.

Through these CIO contacts?

CIO and in New York and all kinds of things. He's teaching school.

He's already got a Ph.D. in history?

Yes. He starts teaching in '37. But by '38, they're radicalized, in '40, they're radicalized, and they're teaching already, and I'm beginning to pull from watching Phil and reading his notes and reading his stuff. So I'm capable of teaching a course in the History of American labor, the Role of Women, and the Role of Negroes in American labor. Through some strange reason, there are people I know who are in the Department Store Union, and I'm asked to come to teach classes for the Gimbel's local, the Local 2, the Local 1-S, Macy