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local. This must be '39, '40. They're mostly women. They want to have classes and they heard that I can teach a class, so I could, gladly. So I begin to teach and prepare to teach, so I teach classes. I get to know people in those unions. That's how I got to know people in the Department Store Union. That's my first job.

You went to work later, though.

Later on, but they knew me.

They knew you.

They knew me.

What was the labor movement? You don't really know that much about the labor movement at this point. You have a limited contact?

I had no direct contact. I know it only from what I read.

You were still at this point, making a living at City College.

Yes.

How long did that last?

It lasted until Rapp-Coudert, which is '41.

So really there's a unity to this period for you from, say, '37, '38, '39, '40, '41?

It's either '40 or '41, Rapp-Coudert. I can't remember.

Well, we'll figure that out next time. But you're working at City College.

Yes, and I'm doing this kind of stuff on the side.

Teaching class. Any other things that stand out from that period, '38, when the defeat comes in Spain? Do you have a memory of that?

Just, “We will not be defeated. Workers United will never be defeated,” except when they're defeated. That's right. Yeah, it's a big, big blow, and then Hitler's moving already, so that he was saying, “I told you so. What did we tell you?” You have to fight Roosevelt, and you have to be careful how you fight Roosevelt.

But that is '39?

No, the quarantine, you know, Spain lifting the embargo.