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When exactly was the show produced?

'51, '52. I have it at home. At this stage, I don't know -- maybe '49, '50, '51, something like that.

Is there anything in particular that you'd like to point out about the kinds of education that you did, anything notable about that, the things that you enjoyed a lot?

Well, you see, I remember a lot of classes, fairly traditional, labor history, you know, the kind of traditional kind of thing, nothing terribly exciting, the history of department stores, that kind of thing, women, blacks. But I also remember that to fight off against the raids, literature you had to put out, and I remember putting out pamphlets for a big campaign. For example, Local 5 was Sterns. They were being raided. That's where I first dealt with Stanley Glaubach. He was an artist, member of Local 144, the display union that was in that building, later became part of 65. He designed for the paper. I remember I worked on him on a booklet, Five For Five. It was two colors, and inside on each page was a picture with a statement with big quotations, but a well-designed thing. I don't remember the guy's name now, but a guy came in from the West Coast, and he was a cartoonist, and he had done a cartoon history of the unions out on the coast; longshore was one of them. I looked at that, and I said, “Gee, that's terrific. Can you do it for us?”

He said, “Sure.”

“When you go back?”

“No, I'll do it while I'm here.” And so we put out -- I have them at home -- a cartoon history of the union that we got out to members.

I remember, later on, part of the CIO Council, the period after the war before we left the CIO. This was right after the war. I remember that Ben Shahn had done all these posters, CIO PAC, and we used to drive around in a car and drop off 150 at each place. Today, if you could get a copy of these things, heavens, they're worth a lot of money. So those things always appealed to me, that kind of thing.

It sounds to me that the other stuff was what you had to do, but the stuff that involved --

Education.

Art, especially.