Previous | Next
9293949596979899100101102103104105106107108109110111112113114115116 of 592
really out of sync with our political views. They're in sync with the
union as a union. The union had -- you know, fairly traditional.
Getting back to the Wallace campaign, people still are debating
whether the Wallace movement was a major mistake.
Do you think it was?
It's hard to say. I don't think I've come to -- At different times I
come to different conclusions. On the labor movement I think that the
major mistake that took place was in pushing the left forces out of the
labor movement, for the left to make it stand around the Marshall Plan
and not to try to work out something with the CIO to stay in. That, I
think, could have been accomplished, and I think it was a mistake to--
you know, you put your head out on the block by doing the things they
On the question of the Marshall Plan.
The Marshall Plan, yes.
What else do you recall about that fight? You weren't really directly
I wasn't directly involved. But the more I learned about it, the
more I concluded in my own mind that it had been a mistake to break
from the CIO.
In general in this period--this is really the last of the general
questions before we resume with the chronology--there's an increase,
obviously, in red-baiting activity in the society in general. In this
period you move toward the expulsion of the CIO unions. What are
your recollections about that period in terms of the red-baiting and
especially in terms of these divisions which are growing in the CIO?
We on the left had a sense of being isolated, except that we
would tend to like put the wagons in a circle kind of thing. You'd get
together with your own people, because it's easier and more
comfortable to be that way. So we were isolated, no question about it.
On the other hand, as you came into 65, even though 65 was having
great trouble because of this, and this was the basis for the fight later
on, the base was bigger. See, 65 felt the effects of this period, too, but
not -- they were able to keep themselves together. They still were a
strong, powerful organization, because they were dealing, for the most
part, with small employers. See, if you're dealing with a department
store, you're dealing with big stuff. If you're dealing with 1199, it's
dealing with small drugstore owners who may be united in
© 2006 Columbia University
Libraries | Oral History
Research Office | Rights and
Permissions | Help