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Political? On what? On the war? It was a broadly based position. It was negotiation and to stop the bombing. It always moved in a direction that could accomplish the broadest base, and we did not want to be go to Hanoi, that kind of thing, to avoid that. Although David and Hal Gibbons and Abe Fineglass went to Hanoi.

You were also involved in non-labor activities. I remember you telling me about working with Cora Weiss and people like that.

Yes. The broad coalition on the antiwar movement, the Fifth Avenue parade, that kind of thing. Norma Becker, that kind of thing.

Is there anything about those experiences that stands out, that bears recalling?

Meetings that lasted long into the night, that were very, very difficult. With friends. Always very, very difficult things. We were always being called in as the mediators. We were the safe people who could be listened to. We could always move it in a direction where it would be okay.

By the way, this relationship continued and continues up to the present day, like the June 12th campaign started in our headquarters. That is to say, we were approached. Cora came to me and said, “Look, we're working on this thing. We'd like you to be labor person on the committee.” I said, “Good.” They were getting different kind of elements in it, different strands. I couldn't devote time to it, and we asked Bob Muehlenkamp, and Bob played a very, very important role in that thing, very important role. We then used that.

We wanted to develop a New York City thing, and I said to Bob, “Way to do it, got to go to Victor Gotbaum. He'll do it if he's the chairman.”

We went to Al Bilik, an AFSCME vice-president. I talked to him first and he said, “I'll take it up with Victor,” and then Al said, “Victor would like to meet with you.” So Bob and I went to meet with Victor and Victor wanted to be asked. “What do you got in mind?” kind of thing. Victor ran a luncheon in preparation for the June 12th thing for the New York City, and all his credit cards. All kinds of unions were there, and what they turned out is a different matter, but D.C. 37 turned out.

We, in 1199, because it was in the period of our big internal difficulty, Doris did not want to get involved in it and raised big trouble inside the union that I was keeping her out and wouldn't let her speak. Finally, I called her and said, “You can speak at the rally,” she said she