Session: 123456789101112131415161718         Page 289290291292293294295296297298299300301302303304305306307308309310311312313314315316317318319320321322323324325326327328329330331332333 of 617

name.” Oh, he was yelling, he was screaming. That afternoon the check was delivered. That's Arthur Levitt.

Now, in the race in '61 what I thought was so ridiculous was the way he let himself be maneuvered and handled by Carmine DeSapio. There was a line which appeared in the New York Times after the devastating debacle for Levitt in that he lost in which he was quoted as saying, “I went wherever Carmine told me to go and I said whatever Carmine wanted me to say.” That's paraphrased but it's very close to what it was, because it shocked me. How can a guy, even if he did, say that he, controller of the state of New York, in the campaign -- and I'm not suggesting that Arthur Levitt isn't an excellent public servant. He is. He's too old -- I hope he doesn't run again. It would be shocking if he did. He's too old. He's performed marvelously as controller of the state.

I had a conversation with him about his son. His son is a young guy, a very attractive fellow who is in the stock market, who would be a good candidate -- Arthur Levitt, Jr. He supports me occasionally in various ways with money, and I said to Arthur one day: “Arthur, why don't you get your son to run for something?” And he said, “I wish he would, but he spends so much money on living...” In other words, it was this cry, so to speak, of a father's heart about his son who was living wastefully from his point of view. But I like them both; I like them both.

I think in connection with your anecdote, I recall hearing