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They're already committed to McCarthy emotionally.

So I then call Victor Kovner and I don't ask his advice -- I tell him -- because I already know what his position will be since his wife, Sarah Kovner, was very active in the McCarthy campaign. She may even have been the state coordinator. She was very active in any event.

Sarah Kovner both before and since her marriage was really quite an activist, wasn't she? She had campaign managerships...

She was my campaign manager in my Assembly race in 1962, and she was the VID state committeewoman candidate who won with Lanigan in 1960. And she now runs a political firm that you can hire -- sort of a gun for hire.

In any event, I knew what her position would be, and I knew then what Victor's position would be. He's not exactly the most independent guy in this area. A nice guy, but not exactly the most independent. So I call him up and I say, “Victor, I am coming out for Kennedy tomorrow on the television program.” He says, “Oh, my God, why do you want to do that?” “Well, I'm for Kennedy, and he took my advice.” (laughs) So I said, “I have to come out for him. I sent him that telegram.” So he said, “Well, why can't you come out for both of them? Why can't you be for both McCarthy and Kennedy?” I said, “You can't be for McCarthy and Kennedy. You've got to be for one.