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liberal? Nobody. And that's why they voted for him. But he is a liberal. But he's perceived as a moderate, and that's what the state of New York wants. And therefore,” I said, “what we should do is get someone like Bess Myerson.” I happen to be very friendly with Bess Myerson, and she is a marvelous candidate if she'd only become one, but she's not interested in that. But at that time she seemed to be interested and I had talked with her. So I said, “I think Bess Myerson should run.”

“Well,” he said, “okay.” And then immediately, as a good reporter will, he went to see Bella Abzug, and he reported the whole conversation to her, and that was no breach of confidence, because I had told him it was for attribution.

So I see her about an hour later on the floor of the House. And I always describe that incident. She comes raging towards me tusks extended, face contorted with hate, and I remember it -- how well. She says, “What are you doing? What do you mean pitting a woman against a woman?” Can you imagine that? If Bella Abzug is in the race, no other woman can come into the race. So I said, “Bella, don't I have the right to support someone else other than you? Don't I have that right?” She says, “Yes, but not in public.” Then she says, “You are a divisive bastard.”

Well, I gave that story out. (laughs) It didn't do her any good. And that story is an accurate story. So she hasn't spoken to me for about eight months now. If we get into a meeting --