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Were you looking at the jury at this time or at the prosecutor?

Oh, if he's asking me a question, I would be looking at him.

But you didn't have any sense about the reaction of the jury to these two answers.

No, no. Well, Podell puts in his case a couple of days later. In the middle of his trial he withdraws his plea of not guilty and pleads guilty. That really bothered me. He calls me as a character witness and he pleads guilty. I happen to be in the cloak room right off the chamber where Tip O'Neil the very day that Podell pleaded guilty, as I recall it, or maybe it's the next day. In any event, Tip O'Neil is recounting the fact: “What do you think of that son-of-a-bitch?” says he about Podell. “He calls me as a character witness and he pleads guilty.” And he says, “You know what happened to me?” And Tip O'Neil is a wonderful raconteur. He says, “You know what happened to me? I go up there. Bert asks me to be a character witness. I go -up and I'm a character witness. ‘What is his reputation?’ ‘His reputation is excellent.”’ This is Tip O'Neil speaking. The n he says the prosecutor says, “Meaning no disrespect, Congressman,” (laughs) “have you ever been a character witness for anyone else associated with the Congress?” “Objection!” “Objection overruled,” says the judge. Tip O'Neil