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included, and he shakes hands with a few people that he sees and he seems to go by me, and I say, “Hello, Carmine,” and hehadn't heard me. But the person that he was with -- and Carmine is quite old today -- stopped him and evidently said to him, “Ed Koch is back there,” and so he turned back and said, “Ed, I'm so sorry that I walked by you.” It was rather a nice moment. “I'm so sorry I walked by you, but it takes a little time for my eyes to get accustomed to the darkness of the room.” He has an eye problem, had it for years; that's one of the reasons why I won, I suppose. He had these dark glasses which made him look evil and added to his already tarnished image. I said, “Oh, it's nothing, Carmine. How are you?” “Fine,” and then he walked on. That was the last time I saw him; it's not very long ago.

What else can I say about Carmine? You'll have to tell me whether you recall that I'm repeating myself, but when he went to jail I was called by Channel 2 to comment on it. They said, when it was announced that he had been convicted of extortion or bribery or corruption... It involved Con Ed. He had taken, my recollection is, a $20,000 bribe to get Con Ed some licenses that it was entitled to have and which some of its vice-presidents decided had to be paid. I don't remember how the thing became public, but Carmine ultimately went to jail. It involved the Marcus water commissioner criminal proceedings and Lindsay. In any event, he's sent to jail for either a year or two, but I think it's a year. And CBS television called me up and said would I comment on it? Well, lots of people won't comment