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I think Goldstein is his name.

Okay. Actually this leads into a question that I was going to ask you further about. You've used the word paranoia here in this discussion, and earlier you talked about the internecine battles in the VID or at least in the reform movement and so forth. How do you account for all this discord and I've heard some people say a tendency toward chronic debate in reform clubs and specifically the VID.

Well, I think there are several factors. One is: there are a lot of Jews involved in this reform movement, and Jews, of which I'm one, tend to debate a good deal and to intellectualize and also to become very passionate. I think that's one of the aspects; I think it's one of the redeeming aspects in a certain way as well as being very destructive. But that's the nature of the Jewish personality. It does a great deal of good and it many times is self-destructive. So that's number one.

The second is: it involves a lot of people who have this as a major outlet of interest -- I mean it's a hobby, it's a profession, it's an occupation, and it consumes an enormous amount of time of people, and you do things in a hobby that you might not be doing vis-a-vis a simple branch of work. So that would be the second.