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time and maybe the fact) black schools did not have parents that were interested in the school or their kids and therefore didn't make the demands that white parents made on the board of education. They weren't militant and therefore didn't get what they wanted. And secondly, the state gave less money to the black schools than they do to the white schools. The fact is: that's not true anymore. It may have been true in '63, '64. It's not true anymore. Black parents today are more militant than white parents, and black schools get more money than white schools in the city of New York. Now, they should -- I'm not quarreling with that -- but the two reasons that I believed were legitimate in moving kids around for that purpose have been disposed of.

Now, there are others who in a philosophical way say, Well, listen, you know, education is improved by black kids and white kids being mixed according to the racial population because they'll get to love one another better and know one another better.” It's just not true. Black kids and white kids when they are not living in the same neighborhood -- they don't mix. That's my understanding. And I happen to remember what the story was when I went to school in Newark, New Jersey when it was integrated and more than 50% black -- the public schools that I went to. White kids and black kids did not mix. You sat at separate tables, not because the school people did that, but because you had your own friends. It is even more so today when the kids are bussed in, because then they are definitely separated for protection,