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for whatever reasons that go into a kid's mind and they'll sit at the same table -- separately. That is, the black kids will be at one table and the whites at another, and it will be infrequent that you'll have the kids really mixing in the way that the theologians want them to mix. It's just not a fact. It doesn't work that way.

And also I'm interested and have sort of applauded the fact that Kenneth Clark, who was responsible for decentralization about two years ago, held a press conference where he cried. And he said that he had been so wrong, that decentralization had been terrible and it destroyed (I'm not paraphrasing or quoting) the school system and he'd like to put the egg back together is really what he was saying. So he left out on a limb Nat Hentoff, who was the big decentralization guy and who if it had been somebody other than Ken Clark, if it had been Ed Koch (and I wouldn't have done it because I'm not an expert), he would have been denoucing me as a fascist. But Hentoff to Ken Clark is saying: “Oh, how can you save us?” and although still disagreeing and urging Ken Clark to come back to the reservation. And on the other hand, a guy like Nat Hentoff sends his kids to Dalton, which is a private school, but he urges everybody else to send their kids to the public schools -- right? And the public schools are being destroyed.

Now, what happens when you run out of white kids in the public schools? Well, then you get Ramsey Clark, whom I heard testify at a hearing before Eleanor Holmes Norton, saying, “We'll