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was taking them back that night. And I said, “Can I go back on the plane with you tonight?” It will save me 32 bucks.” So he said, “Sure.”

So we went back on the plane, and just by chance he sits down next to me. It's a small plane, a nice little plane, about 12 in the plane, and for an hour or so he and I are talking together. I tell him the story about his brother. The strange thing about his reaction was that it was as though I were talking about some strange person, because his reaction was: “That's just like those guys” when I tell him this story; that they don't know what's happening and they're out of touch, and his brother feels that it's wrong to have his conversations the subject of discussion in the public arena. It was at that point that he said, “That's just like those guys.” Anyway he laughed about the story. He also said to me at that time when he was involved in the race with Goldberg and he had beaten Goldberg -- this was right after the Goldberg race, so I suppose that has to be 1970 -- and I said to him: “Governor, when did you first find out that you were running against a number one schmuck?” I said it just that way. He said, “Well, you know, when Goldberg was nominated I really worried about it, because Goldberg is a lawyer and he's a good debater and he's good on his feet, and I'm not a lawyer.” And then I got onto the platform on the first occasion with him, and he began to speak, and then I knew there was nothing to worry about.” (laughs)