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rational guy, contrary to his reputation at that time. And people liked him. It was the strangest thing. Here's Allen Ginsberg, Number One Nut from their point of view, with 250 Italians, and they really got along beautifully. He was really very good. That was one of the first occasions, if not the first. Then we got to know one another through various community events.

Second story. I'm walking along the street one day with Dina Nolan, whom I've mentioned to you before, and Nick Marucci and the cup on the beat. We're walking along MacDougal Street and suddenly I see Allen Ginsberg with three other guys. One of them is Peter Orlovsky. Now, Peter Orlovsky is Allen Ginsberg's lover. He has very long hair in a braid, a little bizarre. If you're used to things, as you are in the Village, it's not bizarre -- but a little bizarre. So I see Allen and I say, “Hi, Allen, how are you?” And he said, “Hello, Ed, how are you?” And I'm with Dina, you know, and I figure it would be an interesting experience for Dina Nolan and Nick Marucci of the cup to have coffee with Allen Ginsberg. So I said, “What are you doing, Allen?” And so he said, “I'm going someplace.” I said, “Do you have time for a cup of coffee?” He said, “Sure.”

So we went into a luncheonette -- it's that one with a garish yellow sign right at the corner of 3rd and MacDougal. We sit down and I can't even remember what we were talking about, but it was very reasonable, very rational. He's an immensely interesting guy, and Dina was really enjoying it. “That's