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talked only about the importance of exercise to health, decried the importance of the discovery of cortisone and Dr. Hench's work, and spoke only of the great merits of aspirin as a drug. He was really hopeless and we could have kicked him!

Was he helpful at times?

Yes, at times he was very helpful and he was sometimes a very good witness.

The House and Senate hearings were yet to come and the results were yet to be unravelled. It was certain to be tough as Sheely seemed to have been intimidated into not wanting any of the Directors of the Institutes to admit they could use more funds for research, even when the Congressmen would ask them in hearings. Sheely and the Directors felt that they had to keep in the favor of Mrs. Hobby and Mrs. Rockefeller, that it was more important to do this than to speak up for more funds. It's astonishing, isn't it!

Is it a thoroughly consistent attitude?

Oh, it goes on and on and on, and some now actually get in touch with newspapers and say they don't want any more funds. It really is man against himself in the most extraordinary way. Isn't it? It's a puzzlement, isn't it?