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budgets of the seven research Institutes by 25 to 30 million dollars. This was overwhelming and happy, joyful news as no head of the Federal Security Agency or the agency since it had been HEW had ever made such a move.

Was he drawing upon the Advisory Councils', do you know?

I think that he had heard that the Councils advised more money, as Anna and I had certainly told him, but I think he was drawing on his basic common sense that if research was good for Eastman Kodak, it was certainly good for human beings. That's what he had said to us. He just realized that if you could spend 63 million dollars for research in one industry, that the ills of man certainly needed more attention. And he was really, from this point of view, the best Sedretary of HEW that we've ever had up until now.

Now, in addition, we heard that he was going to fight the Bureau of the Budget to get the money and to go directly to Eisenhower to get his approval. Folsom actually did this, and Eisenhower agreed with him. This is a fantastic change of policy. This was a fantastic change of policy after Mrs. Hobby's miserly performance.

Well, it also reflects a change in the President's attitude.

Yes, but the President didn't think it up; he just was