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was 142 million dollars over the fiscal '61 budget. So, we felt that in spite of the Fountain Committee difficulties we had made progress.

However, we had grave anxiety in the fall of '62 because we heard that the AMA was going to start to decry all Federal funds in health in order to make Federal operations in anything medical look badly and in order to prevent the onset of any successful passage of hospital insurance or any form of medicare, and we realized that they had taxed their membership $50 per head, which would give them at least five million dollars with which to make mischief, as it's an association and they don't have to pay any taxes on the money they spend in lobbying or the money they spend in so-called public relations. It is a vast amount of money with which to make trouble. And we heard that Mr. Oren Harris, who is the Chairman of the Committee on Interstate and Foreign Commerce, which has the legislation of the HEW under him, was going to hold hearings on the Public Health Service and the National Institutes of Health, which would be sure to have the effect of casting doubt and being disparaging to the National Institutes of Health's operations. And he is, we're sure, motivated to do this by a Dr. Robbins, who lives in the same town, Eldorado, Arkansas, and is a member of the Board of the AMA, a reactionary, conservative member of the Board. And it just happens by chance that this influence should be possible, on a man who is the chairman of the committee and who could make trouble.