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a lot of people talked seriously about this, who would never talk seriously about it as a personal or human or economic matter in the United States. Don't you agree?

Yes, I think so. From our vantage point, in 1963, looking back to the '30s, it seems to me that we've come a very long way in freeing ourselves from all the Puritan restrictions that once surrounded the subject of sex.

Well, I don't think we're terribly much free from that, but I think that by the discussion of the matter as a population explosion problem rather than as a human or a national problem, we've sort of gotten around the issue. And in the beginning, when this was started, I was certainly against talking about it that way because I thought why not talk about it in away that affects the people here and now in the United States. Why try to beat around the bush? But by beating around the bush, they've really come to a wider discussion of it than has ever been made before.

By being universal, they've made it particular as well.

Yes. The picture that our foreign aid funds are going down the drain because the population is catching up with whatever efforts we can make to aid people in developing countries is certainly something that has pushed the Kennedy Administration into acknowledging that there is such a thing and has pushed the President into urging more research in the area.