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As the National Mental Health Institute is and was the only organization in the world that had any substantial funds for research, training and education of psychiatrists, as well as grants-in- aid to states in support of mental health clinics, and as it had come into being as a result of the interests of some of the members of the National Association's group, it was really ludricous that we should have to depart and form a separate committee, but we did.

It was in a sense dividing forces at this time when you couldn't afford to do so.

Yes.

Curiously, Mr. Lamont duPont, shortly after he forced me out, in the sense that the only thing I could see that the Association was doing that was constructive really was to support the substantial funds for the National Mental Health Institute, well, when that was no longer going on, I had no more interest in the Association because I knew they didn't have the skill to raise any money. And even Mr. duPont didn't get any very big money toward it. Believe it or not, he died within six months without a will and out of the 60 or 70 million dollars he left a great part of it went to the Federal Government, which he so much hated, in taxes.

What is at the root of the opposition of such men to Federal funds? What is the philosophy? Would you talk about that?