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certainly were at Harvard, so I felt it would be easier and less dull to learn from them than it would be to learn in another place. The University of Wisconsin was obviously too fatiguing for me.

But Boston must have offered its temptations as well.

Yes, but I had no one, didn't know anyone to start with in Boston. I literally knew no one when I got there, so it was much slower than it was at Wisconsin.

You mentioned Paul Sachs. Were you involved in any of the seminars which he conducted in his home?

Well, I used to go to his home once in a great while, but I was one of his students and he influenced my life very much because he gave me letters to art dealers once I graduated, and really indirectly through him I went to work at the Reinhart Gallery.

I was interested in th4 47 Workshop because Baker was there and they were doing plays, and Phil Barry was writing plays for 47 Workshop in those days. I would assemble costumes for them, and that's about as much as I did for them. I would get the costumes together for them. I don't recall their doing period plays; they were mostly contemporary plays, and they just needed clothes gotten together, as I recall it. I was interested but never more involved than that.