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Well, this last winter, in '62, I went to a dinner where he made a speech on what the state was doing for retarded children and children who had cerebral palsy, and in the midst of it he looked around and saw me sitting on the dais near him, and he said to these thousand people, “Of course, Mary Lasker is going to say, ‘That is all right, but what are you going to do next year?’” And he also introduced all the members of the State Government and then he said, “And this is Mrs. Albert Lasker, who, although she has no state office, has a great deal of influence on it.”

I think that the expressed interest of any outside disinterested citizens has some value, even with him, but I don't really feel that we've made a major dent in his plans or programs. And Hoch has got along more or less with whatever he could get him to do.

As you think about Hoch during his years of service, are you pleased with what he has done?

On the whole, yes. He's infinitely better than Bigelow or anybody else that might have been appointed. I'd like my sister to make specific comments on the mental health situation in New York State and her efforts in it. And perhaps Jane McDonough, who accompanied me and who has done the New York State Fact Sheet on mental illness over many years. One of the things've contributed to the situation in New York State was todo