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he was as happy as a child that we had come. He could express himself with great gaiety, and he could behave with gaiety, too, and he did, was charming. The meeting between Gunther and Stevenson wasn't particularly fruitful but it was very agreeable.

And this was with the idea. . .

With the idea of getting information from Gunther as to what the likelihood was of Eisen hower having another heart attack or a stroke, because Gunther was doing some work in connection with the relationship between people who have had heart attacks having strokes.

And whether this would be really an impediment to his taking office again, for a second term.

Yes, that's right. It was really about that. From Chicago I went on to California. . .

Excuse me, but was Stevenson reluctant to use this in any way?

Yes, he was very reluctant, and really didn't use it at all until the last night of the campaign when he used Eisenhower's illness in a way that I think probably lost him several million votes. Do you recall that?