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extent they would have if Stevenson had come out for him or if Stevenson's friends, you know, had supported Kennedy at the beginning. Actually, I think by the time Kennedy started to campaign I felt that he was doing an extremely good job and was being very effective and I was enthusiastic about him as he campaigned. Weren't you?

Yes.

Then a man named Bill Walton, who is an artist but who had been an editor of Time magazine, was Kennedy's troubleshooter in the New York area. I had known him slightly and he got in touch with me and asked me if I wouldn't make my contribution through him to President Kennedy. I said, “Yes, I would, but I'd like to see President Kennedy when I contribute to him, because I want to say something to him.”

He arranged the appointment for sometime in October. I went to see him on Thursday, the 13th of October, at the Carlyle. I lunched with Bill Walton there, and then he took me to see the candidate at 2 o'clock. He was extremely easy and agreeable and I said to him, “Listen, I just want to say one thing to you about your election. I hope that if you're elected you'll make Stevenson Secretary of State,” and he said, “Well, I think in the end everybody will be satisfied.” In other words, he made no commitment and I know darn well he wasn't going to do it.

I then went back to see him with Stuart Udall after the election, late in November. Udall, whom I had known in connection with the fight to get aid for education bill passed, called me