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In October I wrote to Clark Clifford, then President Truman's counsel, and asked him to intercede for me with the Bureau of the Budget, because all they had allowed in the budget for the new Heart Institute was four million dollars. I knew this was totally inadequate with which to start any large-scale research and training and control programs.

Was Mr. Clifford interested. . .

Clifford became a friend and was especially a friend of Mrs. Mahoney's and was always charming to us, without having any real interest in medical research at all; he was just friendly to our plight and was willing to help us from time to time.

I recall that you told how he came to your aid in getting the bill to the President.

Yes, he did this as a friend and not because he was interested in the problem really. He wasn't against but he thought, well, it doesn't sound wrong, you know, why not help them. But it wasn't that he was a protagonist, really. He wasn't intellectually or emotionally engaged with the idea of the importance of research at all, but he was a very able and charming man, and is.

Clifford wrote to Webb, who was then the Director of the Budget, and got a long run-around in the form of a memo, which I will quote here. Webb is now the Director of the National Space