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ever done, and I'm going to be for it, and I'll see to it if I have to appoint him that he'll support this bill.”

Well, we weren't sure that this would happen, and indeed we were right. He did indeed appoint Rogers, and he was not able to convince Rogers that this was the right bill.

He appointed him on the basis of seniority?

He appointed him on the basis that Rogers wanted it and the other people that had the seniority for it didn't really want it, Rogers wanted it.

What is Rogers background that he's so interested?

I don't know why, but he's been interested in health legislation. He's been on the committee some time and he's always been very conservative.

You've never really had a great deal of --

-- I didn't meet him until this summer. Then I met him with John Brademas and Sidney Farber. I had lunch withthem.

Well, of course it doesn't stand to reason that what's the truth is the truth, you know, until you get into it. He couldn't believe that the people in the NIH were as perverse as they really are. However, we got the bill out of the Senate. It then was a question whether we could get the bill out of the House before the recess, which was presumably going to take place the 10th of August. It was obvious we couldn't do it because of the position of Rogers and Rogers saying