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numbers of deaths but where there was nothing happening. No effort was being made to find out if combination chemotherapy would help anybody.

This is the result of a study by the Lasker Foundation?

Yes, oh yes. It was the result of our figures which we get from the American Cander Society. I give you? now many deaths there are from cancer of the pancreas; 18,800 deaths a year. Maybe you heard about Winthrop Rockefeller being ill, in New York Hospital. I said, “What are they going to do for him?”

“Oh well, they're giving him some drug, but there's no hope for him.” Well, of course -- here the Rockefellers have spent untold money to try to help Memorial and untold in medicine generally, but when one of their own is sick, with an unexplored disease, no matter how much money you've spent it doesn't help you any. The information isn't there, it's hopeless.

Well, to speak more about immunology in cancer, there was an international conference on BCG in therapy of cancer, at the National Institutes of Health on October 5 and 6, and I went it and so did Mrs. Blair.

She has become equally interested -- this is a new development, isn't it?

No, she's always been interested since long ago. The conference on BCG brought up relatively little new as to the therapy of cancer, but a there was a great deal of discussion about animal