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Does this perhaps indicate a new trend in giving out awards?

Well, I don't want to make it that, because it's an expense and a nuisance. I don't want to do it that way. But I did it for Magnuson because he's chairman of the committee in the Senate, the subcommittee in the Senate. That's what I do. That's as far as I go.

If you start giving awards to people in political life, maybe it won't

Then, in the regular research awards, one went to Dr. Kouwenhoven and Dr. Albert Zoll, one for his discovery of how to -- his manual, his method of how to revive people by heart massage, which was developed in the fifties, and the other to Zoll, who was the first one to develop the concept of the electrical implanted pacemaker, which has saved many thousands of lives, including the lives of Dr. -- of Mr. Elmer Bobst, and of Chief Justice Douglas.

It was a very impressive ceremony. I would think that all people interested in geriatrics would have been tremendously encouraged by the award to Dr. Kouwenhoven.

Isn't that wonderful? He's 87 years old.

And to have him say that he now had another project under way.

Yes -- but he's marvelous. That shows what people can be if they don't get struck down by something else.

Now, in non-political efforts --

Let me ask one question about the Lasker Awards. This past year, and