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need them for 3000 or 5000 people, they'd be enormously costly to make. There's something called the opticon that people can use by feeling type, and there's a means -- they put it over ordinary type, and then they put their hands on the machinery, and there are vibrations from it, and you can learn to read through feeling the vibrations. Now, this may be too expensive to use, to supply everybody with or even severely disabled. All these practical questions are not resolved yet.

So perhaps it's wiser that a little time does elapse.

Some time has to be spent figuring out what can be usefully done. But if there isn't some money, nothing does get down.

Now, do you want to talk a little about the House SecurityBill and its variants? You and Mr. Reuther were responsible for the original proposal, were you not?

We encouraged the idea that the legislation should be taken up again, and got some legislative suggestions. These were incorporated in a bill that Kennedy and Martha Griffiths introduced called the Health Security Bill, the Kennedy-Griffiths Bill. Now, these are thought to be too expensive, so Kennedy, thinking to get something that -- Kennedy isn't the chairman of the committee that would finally vote the bill out, but Wilbur Mills is, and he thought he could get Wilbur Mills to come out with a good bill, and Wilbur Mills has indeed gone a long way, but it's not satisfactory to Woodcock, who has succeeded Reuther, and I'm for trying to get the