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brought up if you've talked to everybody, but you can't persuade them just then suddenly. You have to have something that somebody will propose and that five or six people have already agreed upon, to get anything accomplished. It's very formal.

How often does the board meet?

About four times a year.

I have one item here in the area of cancer and that is a newspaper notice that Armand Hammer gives five million to help Columbia fight cancer.

Yes.

And my question was, what is Columbia University doing in this area? I do not know.

Well, I don't know that they're doing anything of any importance except the work of [Dr.] Sol Spiegelman. I mean, I think they're doing what -- they have not been on the frontiers of immunotherapy or chemotherapy clinical research, but Sol Spiegelman has a blood test for breast cancer, which he hopes to have usable in the next six months, and if this is true it would be an immense advance, if it's an accurate test. It works in animals and in men, but he needs to test it in about ten thousand people, women.

You mean, it's an instant verification of the presence of cancer?

Very fast, yes. And it also tells the extent of the cancer